hangforum.com - The Archive

i decided to open this topic because from the time i discoverd the hang exists , i came across other makers on youtube..(so many its hard to count) that makes instruments that looks like a hang but are not.. i was wondering how panart felt like seeing this and what others feels about it.
for me it was a big surprise to see how many instruments came to life with the invention of panart that were not panart..anyone consider them fakes for the target of making money by other people?
i'm not panart but i can say that if it was me who invented the hang , it would make me very sad and angree to see this..

what do you think? and anyone knows what panart feels about other makers?

I totally disagree, every invention that has ever been made has been 'copied' that is, other people have appreciated an original idea taten it up improved on it and run with it. What would we be driving around in and what would household apliances be like if there had been no progression? As for musical instruments the mind boggles -no eletric guitars, drum kits, brass and silver wind instruments etc, etc, etc. Each handpan maker has their own 'angle' and tuning on their version of the handpan and I for one appreciate that diversity. My first handpan is a Bali D minor and I love it, I find I can play a lot more pieces on it than my much more expensive 1st Gen PANArt Hang penta C which I admit is better made but is very dissapointing in playablilty and sound. I would like to own a Halo handpan as their tunings are beautful and the handpan itself is easy to get a good sound out of without tecnique difficulties. I know that PANArt have improved their hangs over the years, is that a natural development or have they looked at what othe makers are achieving? I think I may be correct in saying that although PANArt were experimenting with this instrument it was only a suggestion from a friend or visitor that the final idea took shape. Personally the more I hear about the arrogance of these people the more I think they have brought on themselves what they deserve. Finally, a Stratavarious ( not sure on the spelling ) is unquestionably the best violin to be had, but millions of musicians play lesser makes of violin and make beautiful music, this doesn't devalue the Strata and the more accessable makes do not devalue the musician! Regards to all, hang loose, Shineyegirl

so what you are saying is that if -you- were the one who invented the hang or anything else you wouldnt mind others to copy your invention with different names making money on your invention is that correct?...
and you also think the world cant progress without stealing inventions?..
i just want to understand your point..
i dont know if violins and drums which exists for thousands of years from the period of the Bible are good examples..all the inventors are already dead for Hundreds if not thousands of years..
we are talking about Relatively new invention , it's not violins,drums,or trumpets..

Shineyegirl, what is it that you’re disagreeing with? KFIRO asked if anyone knows how PANArt feels about other makers and your response implies more about your own feelings than PANArt. I’ve spent time at PANArt and I could not tell you how they feel about the topic at hand…which is much more complex than your simple anecdotes. Your comparison between your instruments demonstrates a wholly different understanding of the evolution of the Hang and of PANArt’s direction. Public forums can be reduced to bathroom stall rants when anonymous usernames slander others with emotionally charged jargon…except it can’t be wiped away easily and the message can infect the opinions of a large number of people. I believe that most of the disparaging views about PANArt have come from these sources and it’s getting old. PANArt operates with great deal of integrity and they are the creative wellspring that gave rise to this new economy. I would suggest that you ponder that while you’re playing your beloved instruments. There are ethics and rules in business and from the outside looking in we have no clear insight into the supposed motives or actions of anyone else’s business. No matter how much one may disagree with PANArt on the surface or first hand, show some respect and then play something beautiful. KFIRO, when you ask questions about how someone else feels on a public forum, knowing that you won’t get an answer from the subject of your inquiry, then why bother? This only attracts hearsay and gossip.

hi matt , i saw some of your youtube videos you are a great player and your free integral is one of the most amazing free integrals i heared
about the topic i was just wondering what others feel and if anyone knows panart's opinion on this matter. (i discovered many other makers through youtube so i was curious..) perhaps you are right and i shouldnt ask others about panart's opinion because they are not panart so.. thanks for the remark on that one

Hey Ho,


Several things:

The user KFIRO asked, I believe, a legitimate question. Since ALL we know from PANArt is what is posted through Michael Paschko on Hangblog (or through anecdotal stories like yours), how else does one find out information? [sarcasm]Certainly not web forums like hangforum.com [/sarcasm] (thanks Frank )

People offering their thoughts on current issues are a way for a community to discuss these same issues AND sometimes it involves emotionally charged topics like "PANArt is not tuning Hanghang anymore" or "PANArt is suing other makers". These need to be discussed (in my opinion).

The fact that you were able to visit PANArt for some time (very jealous - not everyone is so lucky ) and still don't know the answers speaks volumes. What it tells me is that anything I say (i.e. guess or speculate) will be wrong... (e.g. no, it is not a drum OR played right the Hang does not go out of tune OR there is no war on handpans)



I think the comparison of instruments put forth by the user Shineygirl is quite valid. Adolphe Sax got a 15-year patent on the Saxaphone - after that patent expired, the saxaphone evolved again and again. The key phrase is that Adolphe Sax GOT A PATENT.

PANArt, on the other hand, offered all of their techniques in academic papers - what type of steel to use, nitriding process, tuning methods. I don't why they did this. Is is my speculation that they were gracious and wanted to share their creation with other would-be creators. Again my speculation.

The Hang, in my observation (speculation), is and has always been... open source.

It is like the Grateful Dead letting all of their fans record and share their music. OR it is like several modern artists who freely share their work.

My own personal story is from my work. I am a "Corporate Suit". Any of my ideas that have merit can potentially mean a raise (money) or promotion (stature). Yet I operate differently. If I can take my idea and "plant it" in someone else thereby making them think it was their idea, then it grows and benefits both themselves and others. The company wins and I win. My boss is not blind - he sees what I achieved and how I got there. I will get credit or not - I do not care. That is my philosophy.



Nice broad brush there dude. I'm pretty sure (OK I know for sure) that on these same forums there are threads about "user names" and why people picked this or that avatar. They offer their real names and ages. There are very few anonymous users.

And to use the phrase "bathroom stall rants" ignores any positivity that is happening in all the other bathroom stalls. (Yes, unfortunately, due to the nature of this creation/this maya... we all live in a bathroom )

May I quote from Paul Simon (Simon & Garfunkel)... "And the words the the Prophets are written on subways walls and tenements halls. And whispered in the sound of silence"

Matt, you mention it is getting old. On the contrary, It is not getting "old" - in fact it is quite new. People are speaking their minds. You might choose focus on other things, but that does not cancel out current happenings.

The use of the word "infect" also carries your intended connotations. Again the people offering these views are real humans. They have been around "since the beginning". They offer educated and insightful opinions. Disparaging views are often heartfelt - and many are true anecdotal accounts (like yours). Sure there are occasional hateful, incendiary comments, but for me that exists across all of this creation - on the internet, between neighbors, in politics, between father and son..

In my world everything is not harmonious. That is the duality of this creation (in my opinion). We can look to the good (and feed the good), but the bad (or dis-harmonious) still exists and creeps into our outer or inner consciousness whether we like it or not.

At least this is my view... your milage may vary.

-greenoak

Geenoak, I’m back on the road tomorrow so I can’t get lured into an endless debate and defense. I made my point very clear in my first post and I stand by it so feel free to read it again. I’ll leave you with a question…why have you been making such a habit of stating so many contrary views on HangForum? I haven’t visited any forum for quite some time until the other day when I came here. I got caught up on some of the later posts and see that you’ve been stirring up the sand quite a bit with provoking counter-points. I believe in healthy dialogue but it seems like you have a self-appointed agenda to scrutinize everything around PANArt while going on about your own evolved state of consciousness. I wonder if you’ll gain any real depth on your mission while holding on to such strongly held beliefs. You once sent me a video of yourself playing beautifully in a nature setting. That kind of experience will give you insight that will truly benefit you in regard to PANArt. My opinion, thank you for encouraging me to share it

you are right Matt...

I guess I have a self-appointed agenda. For a while I tried to be a go-between between forums. I got myself in deep trouble all around. I apologized for my actions.

I rarely post to this forum, but when I see disparaging remarks about handpan.org (i.e. bathroom stall rants), I feel like I'm being attacked. So I feel I have to defend the "other" forum - or at least I go on the defensive.

I did not feel like I was attacking (a bit critical maybe, but no name calling and no bad words). Certainly I do not feel like it was a bathroom stall rant. And I felt like I was on topic. But perhaps it comes across as preachy.

Of course I read your post. Maybe your intent was to end the discussion? Lastly - who would not stand by their post? If you didn't stand by it, why post it?

I just knew, as I was typing, that I should not be responding. Sorry for the stir (again). I will go back to lurking.

-Ray Ford (aka greenoak)

Ray,

on this place it is no problem to call things by name...


Frank

wow.. they gave the knowlege to others? thats.. almost like an alien thing to do and not human thing to do.. after reading this (if its true) i have more respect for them as people also and not just as musical instruments creators.. thats a beautiful thing to do just to pass on the knowlege . so each creator of a hang like instrument got the knowlege from panart?

Another 10 pence worth!!

I play didgeridoos and no one knows who invented those and there millions of the logs with holes in them all pover the world

Also I think in 50 years no one will remember the name PANart etc and I think the generic term will simply become hang or steel pan drum etc

I like it when people romantisize about these things, but you will learn as you get older that names will dicipate from single indivdual names to simple generic brand names

Its only die hards that will remember item specifics IE when I was young blah blah blah

Remember!! its only an opinion!